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I really ought to beposting about my week at VA beach (I swear said post will come), but I've decided to rant/lecture instead. Hey, people are probably getting tired of the distinctly non-fannish journal content of late anyway.
I recently read a post on metafandom wherein a lukewarm Firefly fan lays out all of her reasons for not liking Firefly, starting off with the brown filters and ending up with the fact that (in her view, at least), Mal and company have no real goals or defined character arcs, and come off as bullies and criminals much of the time. And she doesn't like the dialogue.
I'm fairly rare among most of my fannish friends in that I'm a longtime fan of both sci-fi and westerns, which gives me a slightly different perspective on Firefly than a viewer who's background is mainly sci-fi. I think (though, of course, I'm speaking as someone who, despite having never participated in the show's fandom, is a rabid Firefly fan), that part of the problem may be that![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
meyerlemon simply isn't familiar with the aesthetic Firefly is working out of. You can't truly evaluate the show using the same set of expectations you would for Buffy, or even for the more noir-flavoured Angel, or for most other sci-fi shows. Because at its heart, Firefly isn't truly sci-fi. Firefly is a western. A western set in space, where the travelling gunslingers have a ship instead of horses, and the Apache/Comanche/pick an Indian tribe raiding parties are crazed spacers who eat people, and the Civil War was fought between various planets instead of between the North and the South, but still, a western.
That's why the sepia-toned filter (which is common in a lot of western shows and films) is used. It's also why the costumes often bear a vague resemblance to the sort of thing you'd see in Deadwood, rather than in Star Trek. And I can't be the only viewer who's noticed that many of the colonies Serenity visits bear a distinct resemblance to 19th century mining towns or other traditional Old West settings.
The characters, as well, are drawn at least in part from the Western tradition--there's the fussy "dude" from back east who's better educated than everybody else (Simon), the "working girl" a la Miss Kitty (Inara), the morally ambiguous drifter who's vaguely reminiscent of a Clint Eastwood character (Mal)… The Western has a strong tradition of main characters who are drifters, frequently drifters who operate on the shadier side of the law, such as hired guns or bounty hunters (I submit as evidence the complete oeuvre of Sergio Leone, plus numerous television series like Maverick and that one starring Steve McQueen as a bounty hunter). Jayne, of course, is a pretty much just a bully. Or, to put it more bluntly, a thug. But he is glorious in his thuggishness, and I love him to bits.
And, of course, as I said above, the war between the Alliance and the Independants was the American Civil War with the slavery issue left out (but other political and economic issues left in), and Mal and Zoe--Mal in particular--are meant to be a thinly-disguised version of embittered ex-Confederates. They fought a war against a more populous and better equipped foe for a cause they believed in, and not only did they lose, they suffered horribly in the process, and went home afterwards to find that their entire way of life had been destroyed, and many of their homes, burned to the ground. Now, like those ex-Confederates who went West to get away from Reconstruction, they resent the Alliance and refuse to have anything to do with it. To paraphrase a famous song, "They won't be reconstructed, and they don't give a damn."meyerlemon has protested that Serenity's crew are pretty much criminals--well, as far as other western folk heroes and fictional characters go, that puts them in good company. Just imagine Mal as a sort of futuristic Jesse James.
The whole post-Civil War thing may be one of the reasons why the Serenity's crew and the Alliance often fail to fit neatly into the good guy and bad guy slots--the Civil War was messy, and there were bad guys and good guys on both sides. Of course, the whole Lost Cause/Confederacy/Reconstruction theme might not win Firefly a lot of converts outside the South. Personally, every drop of Virginian blood in my veins set up a collective squee when I twigged to the fact that Mal was supposed to be a former Confederate officer (I think this was about seven minutes into "Serenity"--which was the first episode I saw, since I watched the series on DVD). I can't help it--it's a sort of inbred lust for anything in a grey uniform handed down through generations of politically incorrect, borderline-redneck ancestors. However, I've gotten the feeling over the years that a significant number of people north of the Mason-Dixon line (or, you know, people from some place like England or Canada, who probably don't care about 19th century American sectional politics) have trouble seeing the Confederacy as anything other than the bad guy--and certainly never as underdog heroes. For perfectly valid reason, I hasten to point out.
As for the dialogue, I personally felt it sounded very natural, rather than awkward, but then, people have told me that I tend to sound stilted and unnatural when I speak, so it's possible that what sounds perfectly all right to my socially inept ears may sound wrong to more socially aware/less vaguely Aspergers/ADD-type people. Or to people who aren't from my section of the Southeast, where "ain't" is far from an unheard of word.
And, of course, I've got a thing for anti-heroes. There are a lot of people out there who don't.
*sigh* And I've now outed myself as a Civil War buff. A Southern Civil War buff. Wank and fannish censure from more culturally sensitive fans is surely headed my way. It could be worse. I could be telling y'all I voted for Bush.
I recently read a post on metafandom wherein a lukewarm Firefly fan lays out all of her reasons for not liking Firefly, starting off with the brown filters and ending up with the fact that (in her view, at least), Mal and company have no real goals or defined character arcs, and come off as bullies and criminals much of the time. And she doesn't like the dialogue.
I'm fairly rare among most of my fannish friends in that I'm a longtime fan of both sci-fi and westerns, which gives me a slightly different perspective on Firefly than a viewer who's background is mainly sci-fi. I think (though, of course, I'm speaking as someone who, despite having never participated in the show's fandom, is a rabid Firefly fan), that part of the problem may be that
meyerlemon simply isn't familiar with the aesthetic Firefly is working out of. You can't truly evaluate the show using the same set of expectations you would for Buffy, or even for the more noir-flavoured Angel, or for most other sci-fi shows. Because at its heart, Firefly isn't truly sci-fi. Firefly is a western. A western set in space, where the travelling gunslingers have a ship instead of horses, and the Apache/Comanche/pick an Indian tribe raiding parties are crazed spacers who eat people, and the Civil War was fought between various planets instead of between the North and the South, but still, a western. That's why the sepia-toned filter (which is common in a lot of western shows and films) is used. It's also why the costumes often bear a vague resemblance to the sort of thing you'd see in Deadwood, rather than in Star Trek. And I can't be the only viewer who's noticed that many of the colonies Serenity visits bear a distinct resemblance to 19th century mining towns or other traditional Old West settings.
The characters, as well, are drawn at least in part from the Western tradition--there's the fussy "dude" from back east who's better educated than everybody else (Simon), the "working girl" a la Miss Kitty (Inara), the morally ambiguous drifter who's vaguely reminiscent of a Clint Eastwood character (Mal)… The Western has a strong tradition of main characters who are drifters, frequently drifters who operate on the shadier side of the law, such as hired guns or bounty hunters (I submit as evidence the complete oeuvre of Sergio Leone, plus numerous television series like Maverick and that one starring Steve McQueen as a bounty hunter). Jayne, of course, is a pretty much just a bully. Or, to put it more bluntly, a thug. But he is glorious in his thuggishness, and I love him to bits.
And, of course, as I said above, the war between the Alliance and the Independants was the American Civil War with the slavery issue left out (but other political and economic issues left in), and Mal and Zoe--Mal in particular--are meant to be a thinly-disguised version of embittered ex-Confederates. They fought a war against a more populous and better equipped foe for a cause they believed in, and not only did they lose, they suffered horribly in the process, and went home afterwards to find that their entire way of life had been destroyed, and many of their homes, burned to the ground. Now, like those ex-Confederates who went West to get away from Reconstruction, they resent the Alliance and refuse to have anything to do with it. To paraphrase a famous song, "They won't be reconstructed, and they don't give a damn."
meyerlemon has protested that Serenity's crew are pretty much criminals--well, as far as other western folk heroes and fictional characters go, that puts them in good company. Just imagine Mal as a sort of futuristic Jesse James.The whole post-Civil War thing may be one of the reasons why the Serenity's crew and the Alliance often fail to fit neatly into the good guy and bad guy slots--the Civil War was messy, and there were bad guys and good guys on both sides. Of course, the whole Lost Cause/Confederacy/Reconstruction theme might not win Firefly a lot of converts outside the South. Personally, every drop of Virginian blood in my veins set up a collective squee when I twigged to the fact that Mal was supposed to be a former Confederate officer (I think this was about seven minutes into "Serenity"--which was the first episode I saw, since I watched the series on DVD). I can't help it--it's a sort of inbred lust for anything in a grey uniform handed down through generations of politically incorrect, borderline-redneck ancestors. However, I've gotten the feeling over the years that a significant number of people north of the Mason-Dixon line (or, you know, people from some place like England or Canada, who probably don't care about 19th century American sectional politics) have trouble seeing the Confederacy as anything other than the bad guy--and certainly never as underdog heroes. For perfectly valid reason, I hasten to point out.
As for the dialogue, I personally felt it sounded very natural, rather than awkward, but then, people have told me that I tend to sound stilted and unnatural when I speak, so it's possible that what sounds perfectly all right to my socially inept ears may sound wrong to more socially aware/less vaguely Aspergers/ADD-type people. Or to people who aren't from my section of the Southeast, where "ain't" is far from an unheard of word.
And, of course, I've got a thing for anti-heroes. There are a lot of people out there who don't.
*sigh* And I've now outed myself as a Civil War buff. A Southern Civil War buff. Wank and fannish censure from more culturally sensitive fans is surely headed my way. It could be worse. I could be telling y'all I voted for Bush.
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no subject
On the other hand, about fifteen minutes in I did find myself squeeing "They're trying to trick people into rooting for unrepentant Confederate soldiers! This is *so* cool!" and I'm going to keep watching just for that (My Confederate sympathies are hard-earned. Yes, Maryland is south of the Mason-Dixon line. The bloody despot put our capital under military occupation. I'm shocked by how many Marylanders forget that.) Oh, and the music. It makes me wish I had been able to get into Cowboy Bebop, though.
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The bloody despot put our capital under military occupation. I'm shocked by how many Marylanders forget that.
Especially since it's in the state song (there's something in there about "avenging the patriotic gore the flecked the streets of Baltimore," or something equally purple, isn't there?). Of course, almost nobody actually knows the words to "Maryland, My Maryland," and I'm sure half of them get it mixed up with "Oh Christmas Tree" anyway.
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Gina
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Of course, if I watched beyond the first four episodes, it might grow on me. The costumes and sets were certainly gorgeous, and I liked the grittiness, but the entire show took itself so seriously--there was none of the fun campiness you occasionally got in series like The Magnificent Seven or Lonesome Dove.
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I am a history buff in addition to my love of Westerns, and it feels Deadwood is more on the money regarding the "true" life on the border than any other Western I've seen so far. It's not so cut and dry, white and black, black-hearted villains versus brave lonesome heroes... No one is a hero. The evil usually triumphs. Yet life, and love, go on.
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I don't know, maybe it's just me, that I've never seen anything wrong with rooting for the morally ambiguous types- I often find them easier to sympathize with then the hyper noble, moral-obsessive sort. As long as they weren't really hurting anyone who didn't deserve to be hurt, I didn't see that they were doing anything particularly wrong. Which I think ties into the morality problems certain people have with the show- they see the Alliance as being basically good guys, whose laws should be obeyed. And while it's obvious to me that most of the Alliance people are just guys doing their jobs, the Alliance as a whole is screwing over the rim planets, and it's up to people like Mal and his crew to ensure that those people on the rim get food, or vitamins, or vaccines.
Maybe it's the fact that way to many people are trained to think that Confederacy = evil, but I've run into a few people outside the fandom before who have had basically the same reaction as the person you're responding to, which has often struck me that that reaction is being based on the assumption that the fact that the Alliance is the law, and Mal and crew are busy breaking the law puts them in the wrong. I don't know, maybe it's that even though in the pilot episode, Mal and crew are basically doing what Robin Hood did, they're charging for it- which in their case is necessary, but seems to turn people against them. I don't know, I think I tend to be a bit to practical about that sort of thing, since I see absolutely nothing wrong with what they do.
And the fact that I grew up with westerns is probably part of why I'm from New York (which is about as Yankee as you can get), but the only thing I ever saw as wrong about the confederacy was the fact that they still had slavery.
As for the language- yeah, I think it's pretty much a given that most of Joss Whedon's characters tend to speak in a manner that sounds a little odd to the non-geek, but which sounds perfectly natural to geeks. Which is part of why Joss's shows can be so deadly- half an hour of Buffy or Firefly, and I start sounding like Xander or Mal.
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... For a price, of course. But then, they do have to keep Serenity running, and very few historical smugglers were motivated solely by huminitarian reasons, either.
Good point about basically law-abiding viewers being uncomfortable with Mal & co. on principle. When you think about it, outside of caper flicks like Oceans Eleven and The Sting, the audience is rarely supposed to root for the criminals. Especially in television shows, where the forces of law and order (cops, lawyers, detectives, etc.) are usually the protagonists.
As for picking up accents and/or speech patterns from shows... Possibly the one good point about The Magnificent Seven not being out on DVD is that it keeps me from walking around talking like Ezra 24-7. Because you know I'd start to after watching a couple of episodes.
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We're really only supposed to root for the Robin Hood criminals- noble, selfless criminals who give away everything that they've stolen. Although, if you read the older versions of the Robin Hood stories, the Merry Men may have been giving away part of their plunder, but they were certainly keeping a good share for themselves.
And speaking of criminals you're supposed to root for, have you seen Bandits? There's an actual, honest-to-goodness canonical threesome.
And I think you've hit on the one possible benefit of not having Magnificent Seven out on DVD.
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And I'm really intrigued by your discussion of it as a Confederate viewpoint of the Civil War/War Between the States (I may be a Yankee, but I do my historical reading, dammit), since history from the point of view of the defeated is rare, for obvious reasons. My favourite books on the Roman Empire are about the native tribes that got swept up into it, and how they persisted, even if feebly.
Happy birthday, by the way; I hope it was all you could have wanted it to be.
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Yes, watch Firefly! Everyone should watch it and love it and write nasty letters to Fox lambasting them for cancelling it. I discovered the series on DVD after a college friend pimped it to me--I never even knew it existed while it was on the air, because there was almost no publicity or advertising for it. Basically, it's the story of a set of semi-outlaws who smuggle things to tiny, backwater space colonies in their ancient and constantly breaking down space ship. Think the Millenium Falcon with a larger crew and a much more lackluster PR job.
There's Mal Reynolds, captain and embittered ex-soldier (his whole command was slaughtered waiting for re-enforcements that never came), his second in command, Zoe, who's been with him since the war, Zoe's pilot husband, Walsh (he plays with toy dinosaurs and wears Hawaiian shirts), and Kaylee, the young female mechanic. And of course, Jayne, the former mercenary who gives all of his guns women's names---and sleeps with them. Then there are the passengers: Book, the preacher with a secret past, and Inara, the space-geisha. Yes, space-geisha. And Simon and his crazy-but-psychic sister River, who stow away on the Serenity to escape evil government scientists.
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Joss has admitted that Firefly is pretty much Stagecoach in Space, although Simon is a much more positive figure than your usual Dude and/or Doctor in Westerns.
I tend to think of just about anything as a version of The Wizard of Oz, and although, as Zoe says, Mal is often lacking a brain, and it might be argued that (depending on your viewpoint) either Jayne or Inara is heartless, Simon is ALREADY extremely brave.
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That is the most obvious comparison to be drawn, but having seen the rest of the series...it just doesn't feel right to me. Feels more like...I dunno. Alliance=USSR, Independents=all those countries they subsumed post WW2 particular the 'baltic states'.
And yes, I totally agree...you have to approach FF as a Western more than as Sci Fi to really *get it*.
Good commentary, thank you.
From:
Surfing in from meta-fandom
Though I think the Confederacy fully deserved having their assess handed to them on a platter, I still can sympathize with all those who lost what they had and didn't want what they were offered in return, either from the North or from the still powerful southern oligarchy. And the North had plenty of problems of it's own as a place to live and a model to follow.
Which is a very windy way of saying I heart Mal. And his crew. Even Jayne - who is not secretly loveable - but is perfect just the way he is! *grin*