I debated posting this at all, because I have nothing to do with Vividcon and am not a vidder, but..

[elspethdixon]

I felt like something needed to be said in response to comments like this one I'm going to quote:

If a fan is old enough to come to VividCon, I expect them to be old enough to ask for what they need. I've seen posts talking about how people don't want to "out themselves" as disabled by asking for the things they need, and I'm sorry, but that's not a valid criticism of the con's policies. You don't get to say the concom is denying you what you need when you never asked for what you needed. If you don't ask what you need you don't get what you need. -- from here.

First up, I want to make clear that I don't know the commenter, or know anything about her circumstances, so for all I know, she's disabled or suffers from social anxiety herself and already knows everything I'm about to say and is being harsh on *herself* here, or discussing a way of dealing with things that works for her, but it doesn't work that way for everyone.

I'm not going to touch on the issues of ablism as and accessibility as it relates to fen with physical disabilities here because fans who actually have disabilities have already done so, and I probably wouldn't know what I was talking about anyway.

Instead, I'm going to say that even for adults, asking for something you need can sometimes be extremely difficult, and not just because it may require you to reveal *why* you need it (though that can be difficult enough, for reasons people have discussed before - warning: both links lead to posts with descriptions of sexual abuse and assault). If someone suffers from depression or social anxiety, asking for something, even something as relatively small as "can you tell me if your vid has X in it?" or "can I sit near the exit so I can leave if I get overwhelmed?" can be very difficult to say. Just getting to the con and then coming down from your room to watch vids can be difficult; deliberately initiating social interaction with someone in order to ask them to do something for you - something you know (or at least, your depression/anxiety knows) could be seen as asking for special treatment - is even more difficultly laid on top of that.

I have no problem asking people in my main fandom, whom I regularly interact with, if their fics contain X thing I want to avoid. Cold emailing complete strangers, on the other hand, is something I find very difficult to do. And I don't suffer from depression and am not a survivor of any kind of trauma - I just happen to find emails and phone calls very stressful.

For some people, contacting relative strangers to ask for something is paralyzingly intimidating, and it is a real accessibility issue. Obviously, the rest of the world can't magically know what people need without our ever having to say it, but you can make it easier to ask. If nothing else, you can make it clear that requests for help are expected and welcomed, and not impositions.

Shaming and criticizing people who have trouble asking by implying that they're being childish, that "real adults" are able to do this, does not make it easier.

Comments

[hollow_echos]

I'm not totally up to date on my meta (I'm about a week behind, currently working on a fic under deadline that's due very soon and that has eaten my soul) but I can relate to this post.

I am very much of the opinion that if something is bothering me but it is something I can run with and try to work through on my own, I try to do it that way. At least for me, I like to be easy going and try to be compromising even if there is something that is bothering me. I mean, I don't even have any conditions that normally require me to make such conditions known to others, but as a general principle, I like to keep my own business my own business. I have an issue with a few muscles in my leg which make it uncomfortable for them to have pressure applied to them for long periods of time. So sometimes when I am sitting in close proximity to others it hurts after awhile, a good solid ache, but I normally just stomach it and deal with it. Because to explain that to someone I know, let alone total strangers, it's intimidating. These issues, they are my own, and I don't feel the need to be broadcasting them to everyone and all of a sudden be the black sheep in the room.

So if someone has a condition that suggests that accomodations should've been made, no, they shouldn't be expected to ask for accomodation. That's intimidating as hell and can attract the sort of attention that a lot of people feel uncomfortable with.

Speaking with no background on what went down at this con or the current example that is being debated, I can say that I can see some complicated situations for con-runners with such a blanket statement assuming that they should cover any accomodation for any condition they could possibly expect con-goers to have that would require such special arrangements. Sometimes, you can't plan for everything or see every possible turn of events that are going to happen. I would say that con organizers need to make large efforts to make accomodation for people with special conditions, but at the same time, if a con-goer has a condition that is extremely unusual and the con organizers could not anticipate, I would say that the con-goer needs to make an effort to contact organizers and explain any concerns they might have. That might be in the form of an anonymous e-mail, or whatever, but if it's something out of left field I can see a situation where the con organizers made attempts to accomodate, but might have missed a specific circumstance that wasn't on their radar.

[elspethdixon]

There's been a great deal of discussion recently about Vividcon's accessibility policy. thingswithwings has a summary and some links. There's been general debate over whether certain kinds of accommodation for fans with mobility issues can and/or should be made, how they should be made, etc., as well as argument about the language of the original policy. A couple of the things were stuff that people really shouldn't have to ask for, like for sign language interpreters to be allowed during panels and vid shows. Others are stuff where input from the individual fan is needed (like seating access for fans with mobility issues, where blocking out one area of the room in advance as a matter of policy might not work because different con-goers might need to be in different parts of the room, like the front or the back or by an aisle seat or an exit).

Basically, the discussion of access issues for fans with disabilities spread to include the issue of warnings on vids for content that can trigger migraines or seizures (ex: bright, flashing lights and other specific kinds of visual effects), and from thence to, of course, warnings for content.

Cue a repeat of last summer's Warnings and Triggers debate.

One school of thought is that the con should have vidders check off whether or not their vid contains XYZ and/or whether they choose not to warn for anything when they submit a vid and then handouts with this information can be distributed to con-goers who want them (and people who don't want to be spoiled for what's in a given vid show can just not pick up the handout). Another school of thought is that people with concerns should individually email the con staff and ask (and obviously someone who has a particularly idiosyncratic form of content that they need to avoid would still be in that position even if some form of standardized warnings were adopted). And I wanted to point out that emailing to ask is not as simple as people might think.

Making it possible for people to email their concerns anonymously (or at least, making it clear in the policy that you're totally allowed to use an anonymous sockpuppet gmail account to email the concom with concerns or questions) is something I've seen people suggest a couple of times.

[kutsuwamushi]

I'm not in vidding fandom at all, but as this gets discussed on my friends list, I'm getting progressively more unhappy with the argument that people should just ask. The implication is: "What you need is special, and we're going to assume no one with special requirements is coming unless they specifically tell us so." Sometimes things will come up that you didn't expect, but basic steps taken to make the con accessible should be normal and routine, and the assumption that people with disabilities aren't part of your audience is exclusionary and hurtful.

How is it that this is not getting through to people? I thought that this was really, really basic.

And ditto, on the asking thing. I don't even have anxiety issues with email, but I would find it very uncomfortable to ask. If nothing else, this latest round of discussions have shown quite clearly that reactions to these kinds of requests are are variable. Some people will be helpful, but others will be defensive and hostile. I can easily imagine that for someone with social anxiety--or even just fatigue from dealing with this everyday!--that would be enough of a barrier that they would just decide they're not welcome at the con.

[elspethdixon]

If nothing else, this latest round of discussions have shown quite clearly that reactions to these kinds of requests are are variable. Some people will be helpful, but others will be defensive and hostile.

*nods* I've seen a couple posts and comments to the effect that the poster has decided they clearly aren't welcome, because of a sense that accommodations will be seen as something inconvenient, as well as people who weren't bothered by the policy itself but have been extremely upset by the discussion surrounding it.

(frozen)

[hippediva]

I understand your reluctance to post---the entire silly warning situation has threatened to become yet another example of Infinite Wank.

I have rather different take on it that I did NOT post publicly---I don't dare. I'd get lynched at Escapade next Feb. LOL! Which really doesn't say very much for Fandom in General, does it? We aren't permitted to disagree with the BNF's after all. Pathetic! And that, in a nutshell, defines why fandom always fails. *sigh*

(frozen)

[elspethdixon]

It's not so much fear of people responding badly (well, no more than usual for me) as it is that I'm not a vidder, don't know most of the fans involved, and have never been to the con in question. So I feel kind of like I'm butting in to someone else's conversation.

(frozen)

[elspethdixon]

Hmmm... and as this post is listed on metafandom now, I ought to bring up before someone else does that many people consider the use of lynching as a metaphor for angry fannish discussions to be fighting words. Fandom-at-large hasn't come up with a fandom-specific term to denote vigilante-style enforcement of community norms yet, but clearly we need to.

(frozen)

[hippediva]

And now we're not allowed to discuss it without them picking and choosing the words?

Metafandom can kiss my sweet white ass. LOL!

[scarlet_carsons]

Ok, I don't have any interest vested in Vividcon, but...

Shaming and criticizing people who have trouble asking by implying that they're being childish, that "real adults" are able to do this, does not make it easier.

Honestly, I want to beat people over the head with this.

[sodzilla]

Totally agree. I've similar issues myself because of my own depression and other "invisible disabilities" (I have Asperger's) and for me it's hard to ask for any kind of consideration from my own family, much less strangers.