Anyone want to look over a reall long fic outline?

[elspethdixon]

So, seanchai and I are starting work on a new fic that's going to be significantly longer than our usual 40-100 page standard (before anyone gets all excited: no; it's not the next Resurrection-verse fic. That one's next in line after we finish this one).

Anyway, this fic's going to be another epic-length one, similar in scope to RR&R, or maybe even a little longer, and with a very large cast.

The thing is, when we did RR&R, we had two betas to look over the outline before we started and then read the draft and point out that the fact that "apparently" and "slightly" are our two favorite words doesn't mean they necessarily need to be in every other paragraph. One of those betas has since fallen by the wayside due to RL busyness.

So if there's anyone out there who wants to look over a 29-page outline (I wasn't kidding about this fic being epic-length) and offer some critique on structure and plot, it would be really appreciated.

Comments

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

I would love too but I have my hands full with my own story projects and I'm not the best beta in the world. Sorry. ;_;

Also slightly and apparently are awesome words. *G*

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

*grins* seanchai loves qualifiers and I love adverbs, so between the two of us, there's lots of extraneous words to cut out.

[secretkeeper11.livejournal.com]

I'm tempted, but I'm not sure if I should.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

If you're too busy, that's totally cool -- a bunch of other people have offered, too, so we should be good.

[blukitten.livejournal.com]

This is totally unrelated, but how is the new apartment? What is your new number?

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I don't have one yet -- we're in the process of painting now, and aren't moved in.

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

I have a fic due on the 1st that I've barely started and work is an utter nightmare at the moment, so it would be a bad idea for me to offer right now, but if you haven't found anyone by October 1st, let me know and I might be able to help out.

Of course, if work is a bad enough nightmare, I might offer to look over the outline as a way of coping. *wry* I'll let you know.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

We'd totally be willing to send you the outline just for entertainment purposes (the sheer incoherency of parts of it is probably amusing on its own). seanchai already sent you Classicverse 1.6, right?

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

She did! And it was very much appreciated. I still owe proper feedback for it.

I'm holding the offer of the outline in reserve for potential future suckiness of work. *wry* I must ration this things! The fandom is just too small to depend on their being more the next time work kicks me in the head. *g*

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

My main source of woe is that my dearest fannish love is long fic, and several of the long fics being posted now all seem to involve either Mpreg (one of my small number of ironclad squicks, along with cancer and brain damage) or Steve being dead (another ironclad squick).

Though according to seanchai, "All that Remains" may actually be fixit fic even though it's not labeled as such, so I may be able to read that one (and I really need to read 's stuff, because it looks like it's non-Civil-War-containing and long).

[crimsonquills.livejournal.com]

My main source of woe is that my dearest fannish love is long fic, and several of the long fics being posted now all seem to involve either Mpreg (one of my small number of ironclad squicks, along with cancer and brain damage) or Steve being dead (another ironclad squick).

I feel your pain. :-( I'm reading all these fics, mostly out of desperation for content, and...not entirely enjoying them, although there are some fun moments.

You do make me wish I could get Evil!Tony finished faster, because I know the you and seanchai are going to love it. *grins* But between my parents and work it's been on hold for more than a week, and now I'm trying to meet this conzine deadline. Possibly the best thing for me is to bow out of the conzine. I really wanted to contribute, but it's turning into a source of stress, and with work the way it is... *sighs* Actually, I think I am going to go send an e-mail bowing out of the conzine...I feel bad about it, but I need for my writing not to be another source of stress.

Though according to seanchai, "All that Remains" may actually be fixit fic even though it's not labeled as such, so I may be able to read that one

I'm still reserving judgment on that one. So far it has fixit elements, but some comments the authors have made make me wonder if all is as it seems. We'll see.

As for metallic_sweet's stuff...it doesn't contain Civil War and it is long (if you regard the stories as chapters in a big arc, which they essentially are), but...well, it's one of those AUs where the characters don't actually feel like the characters. If you did a search and replace on their names, you'd never guess that they were Steve and Tony. IMHO. I'm treating it like original fic--it's good to read, but it has nothing to do with my fandom. :-(

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain. :-( I'm reading all these fics, mostly out of desperation for content, and...not entirely enjoying them, although there are some fun moments.

I feel bad for not reading them, especially pananoai and 's (because I know theirs isn't going to be a deathfic/depressing angst-fest, and because their other fics have been fun), but mpreg is usually a deal-breaker for me despite the fact that I'll gleefully read Tony/Living Armor fic and fic where Tony is turned into a kitten and so it ought logically to be no different than other crack. And canon is depressing enough right now without getting more of the same from fandom -- I prefer to pretend that the last twelve or so issues of Captain America don't exist (despite the fact that I'm still reading it if no longer buying it), so, no post-CA#25 fic longer than ficlet length unless it's a clearly label fixit with a happy ending.

You do make me wish I could get Evil!Tony finished faster, because I know the you and seanchai are going to love it. *grins* But between my parents and work it's been on hold for more than a week, and now I'm trying to meet this conzine deadline. Possibly the best thing for me is to bow out of the conzine. I really wanted to contribute, but it's turning into a source of stress, and with work the way it is... *sighs* Actually, I think I am going to go send an e-mail bowing out of the conzine...I feel bad about it, but I need for my writing not to be another source of stress.

If writing is stressing you out even more (especially since work sounds like all the stress you need and more right now), by all means take a break for a bit (though I know how hard it is to bow out of challenges and ficathons and other writing commitments, it's probably better to drop out in advance and notify the mod than hit the deadline with a still-unfinished fic, or a rushed fic that isn't as good and was no fun to write).

And no worries about taking your time on Evil!Tony -- the fic the two of us are starting now is going to take ages to finish. Seriously, the outline calls for over forty scenes, we're just about done with the third one, and the fic's already taken a week and a half and twenty-five pages. Getting it all done is going to take months, the way RR&R did.


I'm still reserving judgment on that one. So far it has fixit elements, but some comments the authors have made make me wonder if all is as it seems. We'll see.

Ah. I'll have to do like seanchai and wait for it to be done, then. I have a standing policy of avoiding fiction where it seems like an author's planning to spring an unpleasant surprise on me unless I can check the ending and spoil myself. Unless it's comics canon, because waiting until storylines are over with and then catching up is way too difficult.

As for metallic_sweet's stuff...it doesn't contain Civil War and it is long (if you regard the stories as chapters in a big arc, which they essentially are), but...well, it's one of those AUs where the characters don't actually feel like the characters. If you did a search and replace on their names, you'd never guess that they were Steve and Tony. IMHO. I'm treating it like original fic--it's good to read, but it has nothing to do with my fandom. :-(


I can enjoy those fics a lot sometimes, as long as the plot is interesting and the characters are original-character-like in positive or neutral ways (ex: The Rojhaz in 1602 isn't Steve Rogers at all, but he's an interesting and likeable character in his own right, as opposed to the rant-inducing hateful OOC-ness of Ultimates). One of my favorite Magnificent Seven fics is a long AU mystery/serial-killer-tracking thriller that reads much more like original fiction than Mag7 (I've occasionally thought about sending the author an email asking if she's ever thought of doing a bit of serial-number-filing and trying to get it published, because it's as good as some of the published mystery/thrillers I've read). So, anyway, I'll have to give it a try.

[mindwar.livejournal.com]

I'm jumping in line with all the others that say they can't help you but would love to. But I'm serious-- if I wasn't in school and working right now, I'd be happy to look over stuff for you. I just want you and seanchai that I'm excited for the new fic!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! This one is going to be endless (from a writing process perspective), so all the encouragement we can get is much appreciated.

[missmea.livejournal.com]

I am totally willing, I'm just not sure that I'd be any good. :/

[adn-heming.livejournal.com]

I'd love to have a look at it. And I'm very excited that you and seanchai are working on yet another epic. :D

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Keep in mind that it's very rough -- our outlines tend to change as we write ("Hostages to Fortune" was supposed to be about forty pages long). I know you have a slightly different take on canon and superhero-genre writing in general than either of us, so a second perspective will be especially helpful.

[dorothy1901]

I volunteer. My email is dorothy1901 at comcast dot net.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! One of us will send it to you some time tomorrow or Saturday (right now, it's complete in the sense of "all the scenes are there" but not complete in the sense of "remotely comprehensible to someone who isn't us" Our outlines tend to have a lot of injokes and private shorthand in them).

[dallin-dae.livejournal.com]

I'd love to look over something if you still need someone. I have beta read fic before, and I've also proof read and criticised a lot of in depth outlines for screenplays, so I like to think I'm good with offering suggestions on structure/plot etc. Also, I really, really enjoy your fic, you guys are extremely cool. /geek

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Since structure is our major weakness, that would be especially welcome. Like I told Dorothy, we'll probably get the outline to you sometime Friday or this weekend, after I go through it and make sure we didn't leave any major plot details out because they're in our heads but somehow didn't get written down.

[velithya]

I'm going to assume you've found someone by now, but if not I have a four-hour plane flight coming up on sunday night and need something to do.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

*grins* Yep, we've already got several people. But the offer is really appreciated!

[velithya]

That what I get for not checking my friendslist quick enough ;)

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

Putting myself on the long list that fangirls you two ^__^ If you need me I'm here :D pandanoai@gmail.com

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Thanks! We've already got one or two people who are going to do it, but it really nice to know that there are people out there willing to beta for us if we need it ^_^.

Also. Panda. So cute.

[pandanoai.livejournal.com]

Anytime! :D

(and thanks! I figured i should get a generic icon for my non Steve/Tony postings---- then i realized i don't really have any of those :P)