Posting a rant while violently angry never works out *sighs* I should have known better than to rant about how much I hate it when people erase their fics from the net for no reason (i.e. no C&D letter involved, not publishing it as a book, just yanking it apparently for the hell of it) and think it's rude to other fans and earns one a place in the Archivist Special Hell on fanficrants--the comments saying that I'm an arrogant bitch with an entitlement complex just keep on coming.

Fine then. I am at peace with my arrogance. I am likewise at peace my entitlement complex, since it's the same principle that makes me write and read and believe in the concept of fanfic and fandom in the first place (the idea that stories, once shared, are a part of a greater literary landscape that has some amount of communal ownership, rather than the personal property of the author).

From: [identity profile] werewolf-lib.livejournal.com


I feel compelled to say that I'm currently reading that thread and I'm on your side. I like your idea of 'a greater literary landscape'; imagine the chaos if published authors jerked books out of printing at will(of course, there are some I'd pay to do just that. . .). Some people seem to forget the rant part of that community.

Tape/writing/damage on books makes me weep, too, except in the cases where they bring knowledge of the history of the book.

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


imagine the chaos if published authors jerked books out of printing at will(of course, there are some I'd pay to do just that. . .).

Luckily for the literary/publishing world at large, they can't do that (since they've signed an agreement with the publisher). I know there are some author who dearly wish they could erase every memory of their published work--the guy who wrote The Anarchist Cookbook, who made the mistake of giving control of the copyright to the publisher rather than keeping it for himself, is on record as saying he recants everything in the book and wishes that it would go out of print, but it's (literally, since he signed the copyright away) out of his hands now.

I've heard people claim that posting something publically on the web constitutes publication (usually in the context of "and that's why fanfic is technically illegal and Anne Rice can sue your ass, whereas she could do nothing but whine if you wrote it out longhand and showed your notebook to your neighbour"), which means that deleting it is kind of like pulling your book from print. Deleting it and erasing your digital footprints from every archive on the web is sort of the online equivalent of not only not renewing the printer's contract, but having the book removed from public library shelves as well. And if you say that you don't want people to keep copies of it saved to their harddrives (the extremist version of "my fic is dead to me, and I want it dead to the world"), it's like going into used bookstores and pulling copies off their shelves as well.

Some people seem to forget the rant part of that community.


At least no one's accused other posters on the thrad of being "OMG mean" yet. (I swear, somebody pops up on the community denouncing it for negativity at least once a month).

Also, icon cuteness ^_^.

From: [identity profile] werewolf-lib.livejournal.com


I was thinking about these issues earlier this morning in regards to something similar and had a really clever thought, but today was one of those days that left me grateful I can remember my own name. I vaguely recall it being along the lines of your comparing it to stripping libraries, though.

I think most people like my fics a lot more than I do, honestly, but I'm not about to take my ball and go home just because I don't think things are perfectly as I want them to be. If all artists destroyed their sketches or all poets burned their rough drafts, I think the world would be a poorer place. Much of my personal enjoyment of any art, be it a Brancusi sculpture, a Beddoes poem, a Vermeer portrait or a well-crafted fanfic, comes from the revelation of how it it emerged from thought to evolve into the finished product.

As for the 'I'm leaving this fandom!' drama, I say only that I'm not getting rid of my weaving supplies just because I'm now studying metalworking and I sort of pity someone who think change means destruction of the past.



Also, icon cuteness

This icon is ten pounds of cute in a two pound bag. Some days, it's even too cute. It is simultaneously cheering and a good indicator of my total geekiness. Your icon, now; if you drew that, I am deeply envious of your skills. The shading is just lovely.

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


The icon's from a picture (http://www.ponderosa121.com/artwork/movie/potc_guideline.jpg) drawn by the talented [livejournal.com profile] ponderosa121, who's also done some nice Remus/Sirius art. I a) like PotC, b) am blonde, and c) "Elspeth" is a nickname for Elizabeth, hence the iconage.

From: [identity profile] werewolf-lib.livejournal.com


I'll have to check out her art! It cheers me to see someone drawing in a non-anime style and something about the colour choices reminds me of a book I loved as a little girl.

From: [identity profile] seanchai.livejournal.com


What really gets to me is that so many of those people appear to be completely missing the fact that the rant is largely aimed not at people who delete their fic, but at people who make it so that their fics are gone forever and ever.

I'm really kind of saddened by how rude some of the people are being. Even on a rant community, one should be able to express an unpopular opinion without being jumped on, or called 'entitled.'

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


But if they want to throw their work on the flames while Savonarola cheers, that's their right, and should be respected. Just like it's Anne Rice's right to insist that nobody write fic for her, and her wishes should also be respected and she's not experiencing delusions of authorial goddesshood at all. And it's Stephen Joyce's right to exercise complete control over the Joyce literary estate, and he's doing nothing improper or wrong.

All opinions that have been expressed on the thread, and by the lights of those who while-heartedly believe the above, I am acting entitled.

I'm hoping the rude people are responding to ewhat they think was the confrontational tone of the original post (typed while I was doing the equivalent of throwing a temper-tantrum over the mass deletions from the Wayback machine), and wouldn't be that bitchy at someone who expressed their opinions in the proper diffident and self-effacing manner. I've gone back and toned down the post a bit (though not changed any of the opinions expressed therein).

From: [identity profile] seanchai.livejournal.com


I have this unfortunate suspision that there are a lot of people that just get rude when confronted with an opinion that doesn't match their own. Witness pretty much all debates concerning religion or politics ever.

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


While some of us suffer from the misconception that all rational people will surely agree with us if only we explain ourselves correctly, and that disagreement obviously comes from us not using the right arguments--leading us to repeatedly state the same point/concept in slightly different words, hoping that, this time, the poor, deluded other poster will understand.

They never do. And when head-of-the-it's-my-fic-and-you've-no-right-to-read-it-if-I-change-my-mind-about-posting-it school brought up Anne Rice's right to request no fanfic and fans' responsibility to abide by that, I knew further argument was pointless. We clearly are on opposite sides of the artiste/storyteller divide.

From: [identity profile] seanchai.livejournal.com


I'd far rather be on this side. I don't think I could live with myself if I was ever labeled an artiste. Luckily, I think writing things with exclamation points in the title may prevent that.

From: [identity profile] werewolf-lib.livejournal.com


Anne Rice is, honestly, one of those writers I'd pay to delete the majority of their works. Please, Ms Rice -- think of all the wannabe goth kids you'll save from developing occasionally disturbing vampire fixations! Won't anyone think of the goth kids??

(still, watching her take the crazy train off the track is rather entertaining)

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


The version of the post in my journal is now on metafandom, so there are even more comments, some in support, some politely disagreeing, and some rude. I've added some paragraphs of clarification (basically explaining that I typed it up very late at night while seriously annoyed, so the stuff about "special place in Hell" isn't meant literally) to each version, and left a comment at metafandom asking that the link be switched to fanficrants. That way, I don't get my "recent comments left in your jounral" that I use to keep track of conversations like this flooded with wank, and people can see the dissenting comments and extra debate by me over at fanficrants.

From: [identity profile] seanchai.livejournal.com


That's good - and with it up at metafandom now, there's at least a slightly higher chance that there'll be a real debate, rather than just snarling.

From: [identity profile] sodzilla.livejournal.com


Ummm, I completely agreed with that post of yours? But I'm also an arrogant person so I guess my opinion might not count.

From: [identity profile] elspethdixon.livejournal.com


Well, mine doesn't seem to either ^_^. There's obviously a school of thought that feels that only the original author's feelings/opinions about their work count (odd that they're writing fanfic if they feel so strongly about that, but people are contradictory).
.

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